For Mother Russia - working as intended?

When your sprinting troops get shot at while sprinting they stop sprinting and start to return fire. Thats is annoying because you want to sprint close up with your Shock troops, stop and unload for maximum damage or sprint with your Penals to that tank to use the AT satchel.
It is even more idiotic because Shock Troops stop their sprint to shoot at Tanks they can't hurt instead of sprinting to that infantry unit they should attack up close.

Please note that troops under the effect of "From Cover to Cover" (USF) or "Tactical Movement" (Ostheer) don't stop sprinting when getting under fire. Any other sprint ability like Cons "Oorah" or Ass Grens "Sprint" isn't affected by incoming fire either.

I do think that is something that got overlooked when the ability was standardized a few patches ago. Troops could fire while moving faster if I remind it correctly. That was obviously idoctic too. Please change, give sprint control to player and remove automatic returning fire.

When your sprinting troops get shot at while sprinting they stop sprinting and start to return fire.

As someone who uses for mother russia alot in the previous patch, (I would take that doc just for the ability and shocks, never built b4) It didn't stop sprint then. It must be a new bug.

Working as intended.

https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/67/coh-2-changelog/p6

For Mother Russia
Standardization change to bring in line with other similar abilities.

• Sprint now cancels when in combat

Working as intended.

https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/67/coh-2-changelog/p6

There is no standardization, it is just worse than other abilities. Which other ability cancels sprint when getting shot at? It should be like that: They just can't shoot while moving, but when you move they sprint. Before the nerf it was movement bonus + shooting at the same time, that was the problem and the reason for a standardization. I have no problem that they took away the shooting while moving. But then make it either sprint or shooting controlled by the player like other similar abilities.

The current "For mother Russia" leads to a lot of akward situations. Here are some examples:

1) You want to flank a MG fast before it can reposition. You get shot by one of the crew members or some squad like Pioneers nearby. You get slowed instantly, giving the MG time to reposition or evade.
2) Shock Troops want to get to short range for maximum damage, if they get under fire they stop sprinting and start shooting at their max range doing so low damage. Imagine you could stop Ass grens sprinting just by shooting at them...
3) Units that can't damage a tank stop sprinting and start shooting at the tank if they get shot by it.
4) Penals charging a tank for an at satchel just stop charging if the tank shots once at them. It can even be a TD with tiny damage vs infantry, just hit the Penals once.

If sprint of FMR doesn't get standardized with other sprinting abilities, Shock Troops and Penals need a hold fire button to give players control with more micro at least.

There is no standardization, it is just worse than other abilities. Which other ability cancels sprint when getting shot at?

Valiant Assault and Radio Silence

Don't shoot the messenger

There is no standardization, it is just worse than other abilities. Which other ability cancels sprint when getting shot at? ....

Valiant Assault

Troops will no longer sprint when in combat (This change will also apply to For Mother Russia in the next mini patch)

Radio Silence
Radio Silence is receiving significant adjustments. Its speed bonus is being limited to only activate when units are out of combat. We still want to maintain the ability's purpose of hiding units from the mini-map as it fits with the commander theme and provides a different sort of effect compared to most other abilities. We do want to add counterplay, however, with the ability now giving a warning to all players when the ability activates.

Speed Boost now disabled in combat


For the Fatherland
The duration of For the Fatherland is being increased while the combat speed bonus is being removed to match other infantry combat boosts.

Duration from 30 to 45
Recharge from 60 to 90
No longer provides a speed boost

Valiant Assault and Radio Silence

Don't shoot the messenger

Yeah you are right about that. British Assault Operation is the same also.

But obviously you can't just standardize across all factions, since factions are different.

At 6 CPs (timing of VA) OKW is doing good with infantry at long to medium range and profits from an infantry combat bonus. Brits on the other hand are a long range focused army from the start so they profit too, Commandos still have the option to hold fire and sprint over rough terrain with camouflage to get real close before shooting or getting equipped with double bren to be good at med to long range.

The Soviet commander with FMR is focused on close combat since there are no strong long range infantry units, but strong CC units. So they suffer a lot more from this "standardization". An ability giving only sprint (From Cover to Cover / Tactical Movement) would be way better for the commander. The old FMR was good and strong (maybe too strong). The patched one is just rubbish for Soviets.

Yeah you are right about that. British Assault Operation is the same also.

But obviously you can't just standardize across all factions, since factions are different.

At 6 CPs (timing of VA) OKW is doing good with infantry at long to medium range and profits from an infantry combat bonus. Brits on the other hand are a long range focused army from the start so they profit too, Commandos still have the option to hold fire and sprint over rough terrain with camouflage to get real close before shooting or getting equipped with double bren to be good at med to long range.

The Soviet commander with FMR is focused on close combat since there are no strong long range infantry units, but strong CC units. So they suffer a lot more from this "standardization". An ability giving only sprint (From Cover to Cover / Tactical Movement) would be way better for the commander. The old FMR was good and strong (maybe too strong). The patched one is just rubbish for Soviets.

That is simply false.

The ability comes with 15% accuracy bonus so Penal get great far, DPS conscripts get good far DPS and maxim get excellent DPS (50% accuracy).

The ability also provides 90% received accuracy so infatry take less damage on approach.

That is simply false.

It is not because Brits and OKW are just better at long range infantry combat than Soviet Counterattack Tactics which have no good long range infantry. Obviously an infantry unit that stops sprinting when getting shot at profits a lot more of the accuracy bonus if it is suited for long range combat. A short ranged unit like Shock Troops would be better off to sprint closer since they deal way less damage at medium range even with the accuracy bonus. That is a real simple logic, so be careful about calling out such things.

The ability comes with 15% accuracy bonus so Penal get great far, DPS conscripts get good far DPS and maxim get excellent DPS (50% accuracy).

Regarding Penals: They don't need 15% accuracy since they hit every vehicle in this game automatically at Vet0. Should you fight infantry they get a huge accuracy bonus with Vet and Vet1 ability to the last man already. Penals are a design flaw regarding the combination of PTRS and their Vet, they are the least ones needing more accuracy. They should be vetted when FMR is available.
Regarding Maxim: If the accuracy and thus killing capability of an MG gets too strong its ability to suppress drops. Somebody around here explained that mechanism at the Vickers a while ago. The least you want is less suppression on Maxim.

I'm not completely sure about the effect at Maxim suppression (how it works out). Anyways Maxims are not the main body of troops at Counterattack Tactics, a combination of Shock Troops and Penals synergizes well at this commander. But both don't really profit enough from FMR.

The ability also provides 90% received accuracy so infatry take less damage on approach.

The only thing that does something at least.

But as I said factions are different. Old FMR factored that in, the patch nerfed it in the wrong direction. Regarding Counterattack Tactics + Soviets design it should have nerfed shooting not moving.

It is not because Brits and OKW are just better at long range infantry combat than Soviet Counterattack Tactics which have no good long range infantry. Obviously an infantry unit that stops sprinting when getting shot at profits a lot more of the accuracy bonus if it is suited for long range combat. A short ranged unit like Shock Troops would be better off to sprint closer since they deal way less damage at medium range even with the accuracy bonus. That is a real simple logic, so be careful about calling out such things.

Yes sheock troops could yolo charge with for the mother land and even get easily kill on retreat and this why the the ability changed (for every faction.)

That was as you admitted that made the ability "too strong".

Clayming that the ability does not benefit Soviet unit is different story thou.

Regarding Penals: They don't need 15% accuracy since they hit every vehicle in this game automatically at Vet0. Should you fight infantry they get a huge accuracy bonus with Vet and Vet1 ability to the last man already. Penals are a design flaw regarding the combination of PTRS and their Vet, they are the least ones needing more accuracy. They should be vetted when FMR is available.

PTRS vs vehicles is not really very relevant.

Both accuracy and received accuracy bonuses coming from FMR help Penal troops perform better at all ranges.

Claiming that penals do not benefit from this ability is simply false.

Other support weapons get bonuses also.

Regarding Maxim: If the accuracy and thus killing capability of an MG gets too strong its ability to suppress drops. Somebody around here explained that mechanism at the Vickers a while ago. The least you want is less suppression on Maxim.

I'm not completely sure about the effect at Maxim suppression (how it works out). Anyways Maxims are not the main body of troops at Counterattack Tactics, a combination of Shock Troops and Penals synergizes well at this commander. But both don't really profit enough from FMR.

That is like saying that HMG-42 does not benefit from AP rounds that increases accuracy (and damage)

Claiming that maxims do not benefit from this ability is simply false.

The only thing that does something at least.

But as I said factions are different. Old FMR factored that in, the patch nerfed it in the wrong direction. Regarding Counterattack Tactics + Soviets design it should have nerfed shooting not moving.

The changes was in correct direction since it no longer "press a key get squad wipes" ability and it is similar for all faction.

Yes sheock troops could yolo charge with for the mother land and even get easily kill on retreat and this why the the ability changed (for every faction.)

So changing it for moving like "From Cover to Cover" or "Tactical Movement" would have done the trick too and would have fitted the commander.

PTRS vs vehicles is not really very relevant

That is a very, very funny statement. I do think I don't need to comment that any further...

Shooting at vehicles accuracy bonus gets you absolutely nothing, shooting at infantry it depends on target, range and vet of penals. There are enough ingame situations where you will automatically hit with Vet without FMR bonus. One example shooting at weapon team crews. Overall Penals get less out of it in comparison to other troops because of PTRS and high own acc boni.

For Shock Troops it is just plainly awful.

That is like saying that HMG-42 does not benefit from AP rounds that increases accuracy (and damage)

Claiming that maxims do not benefit from this ability is simply false.

You miss the point since the main role of AP rounds are beeing a soft counter to light vehicles. Furthermore the HMG-42 has such a high suppression that a higher accuracy shouldn't lead to the situation that you suppression is worse by killing squad entities. Anyways as I said Maxims are not the core of this Commander, only some optional supplement. And this was not my main matter, so lets not derail it anymore at this point.

The changes was in correct direction since it no longer "press a key get squad wipes" ability and it is similar for all faction.

Its okay that is no Squad Wipe button anymore. But by making abilities similar you have to take into account the different faction traits. If the commander would come with Airborne Guards or Assault Guards which both would greatly profit form current FMR it would be another thing. With the combination of Shock troops and Penals it was nerfed in the wrong direction. The ability should focus on movement and not combat buffs. Please no "standardization" without thinking about game mechanics of certain commanders.

...

The ability provides useful bonuses to:
Combat engineers
Conscripts
Penals
Sniper
Shock troops
Maxims
Mortars
Zis guns
B4s

claiming the opposite is simply false. To answer the the topics tittle the ability DOES work as intended.

Now if you in your opinion FTM should become ability specifically designed to Shock troops ask for it, although I doubt it will happen because Shock are one of strongest infatry in game.

Ranting about how Soviet one of the strongest allied got the sort end of the stick does not support your suggestion thou.

...

So I will summarize again what this thread is about, to get it away from the derail. The current implentation of FMR doesn't fit game mechanic of Counterattack Tactics / Soviets. Shock Troops + Penals is a core mechanic of this commander.

old FMR:
Shock Troops as a core unit of the Commander moved faster and hit harder while they were moving, even could chase down fleeing units. The ability helped a lot to cover ground and thus deal damage. Yes this was too strong, I don't want to relativize that.
Penals benefitted mainly by getting their AT satchels on target with greater chance.

patched FMR:
Shock Troops and Penals loose moving bonus by shooting at them, it is enough if a crew member of a weapon team does it or something like a TD. This "little change" is a complete turn around from near to op to overpriced since faction/commander design was not considered. Factions/commanders that are less focused on close ranges than Soviet/Counterattack Tactics don't have this problem with similar abilities (VA at OKW/ AO at Brits).

Movement buff + Shock Troops = too strong? First off all they should loose shooting while moving faster to fix the originally problem. Secondly you already have a similar situation with Thompson Ranger and Cover to Cover on one of the most popular USF commanders. Doesn't seem to be too strong.

So I will summarize again what this thread is about, to get it away from the derail.

The only way to derail it if you choose to by going personal instead of sticking to topic of this thread.

The current implentation of FMR doesn't fit game mechanic of Counterattack Tactics / Soviets. Shock Troops + Penals is a core mechanic of this commander.

And that is simply false both unit benefit from ability and especially Penal.

old FMR:
Shock Troops as a core unit of the Commander moved faster and hit harder while they were moving, even could chase down fleeing units. The ability helped a lot to cover ground and thus deal damage. Yes this was too strong, I don't want to relativize that.
Penals benefitted mainly by getting their AT satchels on target with greater chance.

patched FMR:
Shock Troops and Penals loose moving bonus by shooting at them, it is enough if a crew member of a weapon team does it or something like a TD. This "little change" is a complete turn around from near to op to overpriced since faction/commander design was not considered. Factions/commanders that are less focused on close ranges than Soviet/Counterattack Tactics don't have this problem with similar abilities (VA at OKW/ AO at Brits).

Movement buff + Shock Troops = too strong? First off all they should loose shooting while moving faster to fix the originally problem. Secondly you already have a similar situation with Thompson Ranger and Cover to Cover on one of the most popular USF commanders. Doesn't seem to be too strong.

Compared to other similar abilities this one also provides bonus to support weapons including the B4 so it does fit the commander.

Arguing that the ability is bad when it is not does not promote your suggestion to change it.

If in you opinion FMR should be redesigned to be good specifically for shock troops make your suggestion.

If you want to argue that the commander could use a different ability go ahead but the commander is strong as is and it hardly need more buffs.

And that is simply false both unit benefit from ability and especially Penal.

It is about 20% of the performance of the old FMR for this two units, especially for Shock Troops. Keep saying it again and again, maybe somebody will believe it.

...

I made my suggestion multiple times. The ability should focus more on movement instead off combat buffs, since the faction and the commander especially is more focused on close quarte fights. I don't want to repeat it again. It was turned from a very strong ability for the core infantry units of this commander into an ability that hardly supports this units at all. Old FMR was a little bit too strong but the design fitted the commander better than the patched FMR.

It is about 20% of the performance of the old FMR for this two units, especially for Shock Troops. Keep saying it again and again, maybe somebody will believe it.

For shock troops it inferior but that change is inline with change to other similar abilities. Soviet simply did not get the sort end of the stick.

For Penals that have good DPS at all ranges the ability remains useful.

The ability is simply fine.

I made my suggestion multiple times. The ability should focus more on movement instead off combat buffs, since the faction and the commander especially is more focused on close quarte fights. I don't want to repeat it again. It was turned from a very strong ability for the core infantry units of this commander into an ability that hardly supports this units at all. Old FMR was a little bit too strong but the design fitted the commander better than the patched FMR.

The commander is not focus on close quarter fights there are commander that more focus. Shock troops are but neither KV-1, B-4, FMR or Reckon plane are "close quarter" abilities.

In addition the commander is very strong and popular and does really need buffs.

It still unclear to me at least what you are suggesting, do you want FMR to be changed into tactical movement?

Yeah buffing not so great long range units long range dps is still usefull. But not nearly as usefull as buffing great long range units long range dps.

His point still stands. This chance or standardisation doesnt fit the soviet faction. It has far greater negative impact then on other factions.

Grenadiers volks obers for example dont suffer as much from stopping sprinting as all their weapons are lots better at max range. They will gets shot at at their prefered ranges when being forced out of sprint. At wich they do great damage with the ability active.
Cons penals shocks etc dont get such an advantidge since they are short(er) range units. Their impact is far less at this moment.

His idea of removing some combat bonusses in favor for movement buffs is sound.

Yeah buffing not so great long range units long range dps is still usefull. But not nearly as usefull as buffing great long range units long range dps.

His point still stands. This chance or standardisation doesnt fit the soviet faction. It has far greater negative impact then on other factions.

Grenadiers volks obers for example dont suffer as much from stopping sprinting as all their weapons are lots better at max range.They will gets shot at at their prefered ranges when being forced out of sprint. At wich they do great damage with the ability active.
Cons penals shocks etc dont get such an advantidge since they are short(er) range units. Their impact is far less at this moment.

His idea of removing some combat bonusses in favor for movement buffs is sound.

And what commander aura do grenadier have that gives them a speed boost and accuracy bonus?

And what commander ability do grenadier have that gives them a speed boost and accuracy bonus?

You got me on the grenadiers. Very good.

Now how about the fact that this standardisation had the wrong impact as soviet units need to be closer to be a simaler threat. Also that basicly every axis tank has a pintle making it even easier to stop the sprinting from any direction.

You got me on the grenadiers. Very good.

Now how about the fact that this standardisation had the wrong impact as soviet units need to be closer to be a simaler threat. Also that basicly every axis tank has a pintle making it even easier to stop the sprinting from any direction.

I am not sure what your point is.

Iyo is FMR a bad ability?

Iyo the other abilities of the same class are better and yes which ones?

Iyo is Counterattack Tactics as weak commander that need to a buff?